SEE THE SHOW NOTES AND LISTEN AT: The Circular Experiment and Action-Oriented Circular Economy with Ashleigh Morris

Katherine Whalen [00:00:03] Hey there, Getting in the Loop listeners. Ever wondered what can be done in your industry to help create more circular economy? To mark the one year anniversary of the Getting in the Loop Podcast, I've put together a short e-book to help you navigate key circular trends in textiles and apparel, ICT and electronics and packaging. And it includes links to related reports as well as relevant Getting in the Loop podcast episodes. It's yours to receive when you join up to our podcast newsletter at CircularSectors.GettingInTheLoopPodcast.com. So head over to our website to get your copy of the Circular Sectors Navigator. That's again, CircularSectors.GettingInTheLoopPodcast.com. 

[00:00:50] Hi, I'm Katie Whalen. And join me each week of I talk with experts around the globe about Circular economy. You'll find out what's being done to make it a reality and if it can really solve the problems it promises. It's time for Getting in the Loop. 

[00:01:06] Welcome back to the Getting in the Loop Podcast. We're kicking off our fall 2020 season with a big milestone because we're celebrating 50 episodes of the Getting in the Loop Podcast. Well, when I say that out loud, I really think that's that's an accomplishment. I'm excited for we get to 100 already, but of course, I know the importance of taking time to acknowledge your milestones as they come. So 50 episodes. I want to say thank you to you, listener, because I truly couldn't have done it without you. Thank you for sharing your favorite episodes, for leaving reviews of the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And, of course, for connecting and posting on LinkedIn. I've gotten the chance to meet many of you actually either in person or more likely virtually on LinkedIn over the last one and a half years. And it has been a lot of fun. I also want to, of course, acknowledge the guests who have shared their expertize and more importantly, their enthusiasm for Circular economy over the one and a half years that we've been up and running. And last but not least, I want to thank some of the people that you might not even be aware of because you don't see or hear them. So I'm talking about the small and mighty Getting in the Loop Podcast team. Thank you, Monette, Alexie and Latisha. They have worked with me to help bring this podcast to life and have played really important roles in the development over the Getting in the Loop Podcast show over the last one and a half years. Today's episode was actually recorded in April, and I've had a bit of a hard time to not release it sooner because it is that good. It's not about thinking, which I know we talk a lot about on the Getting in the Loop Podcast. It's actually about doing. And for that reason, I was kind of saving it to share with you as our special fiftieth episode. Today's theme revolves around asking the question, what would happen if you applied circular concepts to a local area or region? And to dive into this question with us is Ashleigh Morris, who is the CEO of Coreo. Coreo is a company actioning circular economy in Australia, Asia, and Ashleigh is widely recognized as a circular economy visionary with the skills, experience and ability to not only inform future strategy, but to also lead the action required to achieve impact. In this episode, Ashleigh tells us about the state of Circular economy in Australia, and she shares her experiences practically implementing Circular economy strategies. So get ready to hear about Coreo's first project, aptly named the Circular Experiment, where Ashleigh and her team applied Circular economy concepts such as reverse logistics and asset sharing to a street in Queensland which resulted in economic, environmental and social benefits. Ashleigh also shares key factors you should consider before embarking on your own circular experiment. 

[00:04:31] Welcome to the Getting in the Loop Podcast, Ashleigh. I'm really excited to have you here today. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:04:37] Thank you so much for having me. This should be a lot of fun sharing insights into what we're getting up to down here in Australia. 

Katherine Whalen [00:04:43] Yes. So you've given us a hint of where you're calling from, but to where exactly in Australia are you located? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:04:50] So I'm based in the beautiful, sunny Queensland and I work out of Brisbane and one of our capital cities. 

Katherine Whalen [00:05:00] I've never been to Australia, but it's on my list. Maybe sometime post Corona, although who knows when that will be. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:05:08] Yes, I think we're all waiting for some clarity on when we can all get back out there travelling that world.  

Katherine Whalen [00:05:16] Yeah. So let's start off with a bit of a general introduction. If you could just tell us about your background and what you're doing now. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:05:24] So I'm an environmental health scientist. But today I spend most of my time talking about the economy. My early part of my career was actually spent in Indonesia assessing the drivers of waste pollution firstly and then working in the palm oil supply chain with a not for profit organization that represented about 60 percent of the world's supply of palm oil. So I've seen some very long global supply chains that have some significant impacts in that process. And I had learned about the línea and the Circular economy early into my career, especially when I was doing my my thesis, which had looked at electronic waste. 

[00:06:05] But I didn't really understand the concept fulsomely at that time. And I really wanted to to actually understand it much better than I did. And I got to a point in my career which. Just seeing me put band aids on a bigger problem, and I wasn't really okay with that. I quit my job, I returned to Australia and I founded Australia's as pilot project for Circular economy called the Circular Experiment. And it very much was an experiment. And now I find myself as the CEO of a company after having a very successful experiment. And we are a team of five. We work in three countries across all aspects of the supply chain, from mining to all levels of government here in Australia, and we prioritize putting actionable projects forward that demonstrate what a circular economy can mean. 

Katherine Whalen [00:07:04] Yeah. What you are doing some great work with Coreo. And we'll come back to that shortly before we do, I wanted to learn a little bit more about Circular economy in your part of the world. So we actually have quite a few listeners from Australia and I'm curious to hear from you how Circular economy is being approached there. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:07:26] Yeah, it's been a really interesting, I think, last couple of years, particularly here in Australia. So when we started the circular experiment, there was no dialog on the Circular economy here at all, really there. And then throughout that experiment, which was we did that over twenty seventeen the last two quarters of twenty seventeen. And we started seeing some reports emerge about what it could mean for jobs and emissions reductions. And one of our neighboring states, South Australia, that was a fantastic report that got people talking. And then we started to say that expand into other reports and other policy agendas, but not policy itself. And then I also start to see industry adopt the terminology. And fast forward to today the dialog and the word is much more commonly used. But it's the understanding of what it really is is not a yet at all. In Australia, we absolutely are taking the circular economy down to its lowest common denominator, which is recycling, which it absolutely is not in its entirety. All about that. It's just that is one small element of the total opportunity that the circular economic ball presents. So there's been a lot of progress, but we had a long way to go to really representing the Circular economy accurately. 

Katherine Whalen [00:08:57] I also get that sense from a lot of different parts of the world. I mean, here in Europe where we are emphasizing other aspects besides recycling, but of course, there are still a lot of discussion about recycling. And I was in the States a couple weeks ago and their conversation was just very focused on recycling. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:09:21] So we need people like you to champion the idea and take it just beyond recycling. Yeah, I think globally, it's it's very common that people haven't had the Circular economy is understanding centered around recycling because at the entry level. It's really easy to understand it's tangible for the everyday person. And I think that's a critical part of our work, is to expand people's understanding through demonstration of the other applications. 

Katherine Whalen [00:09:49] What I what I love about the work that you're doing right now is that you take a very practical approach and I think that you're circular experiment really showcases this quite well. So I would love to learn a little bit more about it. Could you share about the secular experiment? You did it in 2017, correct? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:10:08] Yeah, absolutely. It was 2017 and my sister and myself started the circular experiment concept by, you know, on the back of a conversation, which we were really passionately, you know, presenting the challenges that we, we each have seen, you know, from our careers. You know, my sister comes to our company with a background in remote area nursing, so working the most geographically distant places of our country with indigenous peoples to make sure they have the right healthcare. And she had seen similar to what I had seen, but, you know, a supply chain and production of local commodities, you know, perspective that both of those systems were failing to address the systemic causes of the problems that we were seeing a show up every single day. So we both came to that conversation very passionate about wanting to make change. We didn't know what that change would look like, but we both agreed that the Circular economy presented a really intriguing model to test. And the reason we developed this as an experiment is because it was very much an experiment. There was no tangible projects that we could look to. There have, of course, and I think everywhere around the world relate to this is there had been Natia examples in certain business operations like recycling, for instance, or, you know, organic food on organics and food waste being devoted to compost, to then go back to soil to grow food. Those examples had existed for a long time. But, you know, a higher level thinking or application of circular economy wasn't evident yet. And that's really what we wanted. We wanted to test that concept as much as we possibly could in a six month timeframe because we were doing it for free as well, because we didn't think there was any way to ask a business to invest in the concept that we weren't entirely sure about ourselves. So we we went down on a city street and we shook the hands of business owners when it introduced ourselves. Explain what we were trying to do. Of course, they looked at us like circular economy what? But we eventually got better at listening and articulating what we thought we could support them to achieve through a circular economy approach. And we started to understand that there were a couple of key things that the businesses, of course, for caring about that being around energy, water, waste, and also making sure that people wanted to come to this straight, which you could also consider is like a micro economy. So and I told us the reasons why they felt people weren't coming. And a lot of it was like Líder. And it's grungy. Its identity wasn't very popular or positive for families to spend time in this location. So we looked at six different concepts to apply, ranging from like reverse logistics through to asset sharing to try to maximize the resources that were in the street, to also look at how we could live in trucks and the deliveries and the costs to business. We also looked at very practical things around reducing energy consumption of the businesses are just very practical projects, looking at how, you know, a major bar in the street could, you know, reduce opening certain fridges if they could just put all of the popular old alcoholic beverages in one fridge, like the simple things that actually made a big difference because it was producing. I guess the demand of the cooling requirement for the fridge itself. And we were able to successfully achieve a 40 percent energy reduction for that. The biggest business on the street, which was the bar and restaurant, we were able to set up a reverse logistics project for packaging, for plastic packaging, and then start to couple that same supply of the plastic packaging for her to take the coffee grounds out of the street from all of the businesses that sold coffee to then use on her farm. And we started layering these projects to create this circularity and also the collaborative nature between these businesses and their key stakeholders. And ultimately, we delivered about 20 two projects in that six month timeframe. All were cost neutral or cost saving and some generated revenue and ultimately that we built social capital. One of the most important aspects that we know we attained for the experiment, which was the businesses, whilst they had shed a wall, they never really knew each other or what their businesses cared about necessarily. They just, you know, they would open their shop for the day or the restaurant or the bar or the hairdresser, and they would just say hi to one another. And Monat close up, you know, they'd say goodbye for the day. And that was it. That was the extent of the relationship. And by the end of our project, the businesses had formed an independent tried this association where they all collectively agreed on objectives that they want to achieve. And they they talked about things that, you know, that if they worked together along, they could make greater impact. They could attract more people to the street to invest in each of their businesses. They could have incentives between them. Now, if you buy here, you get a discount there, etc.. So it really created systemic change, which is what a circular economy is all about. And it was very much rooted in practical application and learning by doing. And that is really difficult for a lot of people to do. Actually, I've learned over the past several years working the circular economy is that it's actually quite rare to just get out there and do it. But I can, you know firsthand, tell you that it was the most valuable experience of my life and my career. And it certainly has led us to get a company that we are today. 

Katherine Whalen [00:15:50] It's so fascinating to hear you speak about this, and I think one of the things that we're really lacking in Circular economy are these tangible examples and what you've been able to do with the circular experiment is to you said take six different concepts and apply them and make sort of like a microcosm for what could be done that like a larger scale. And it's it seems like doing it. In, you know, in a street allowed you to be able to, even though it wasn't easy there by any means, but it was allowing you to sort of play around and try to see how you could apply these different different types of concepts. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:16:33] Yeah, I think that's really important for-- We've had so many people reach out from all around the world actually to say, like, is there a blueprint of how you did this? And, you know, we never spend the time to, like, write it all down. But we obviously retrospectively did. But, you know, I think it's so important for people to define a system in which they are going to apply some circular concepts. You can't do it all and you can't do it alone is something we often say. So I think the concept of a street, a precincts, you know, a school or, you know, an institutional, some sort can really help give parameters or scope. And then, you know, you can define your inputs in your outputs, your key actors, and start to build your layers. But, you know, it's just to be honest, it's just putting one foot in front of the other and being brave enough to do that. 

Katherine Whalen [00:17:20] So I'm curious, how did you decide on this specific street? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:17:26] Yeah. Good question. We had a number of advisors. We were typically going to start with one house, one institution. So a school or maybe an aged care facility, maybe a school or a medical hospital. So a house hospital and then a business. And then we realized from our advisers that you need economies of scale. You need to have enough materials, you know, that potentially getting leaked out of US clutches, such as weight as waste, for someone to care enough about collecting it because they need to see viability or value in the material, need to have enough, you know, energy consumption. You need people to be co-located. So we started with what we started to understand was that the best way for us to create this demonstration was to select a street. And then we knew there was a number of popular streets, you know, where a lot of people go out at night and also to buy their groceries, clothes and all of those things. And we narrowed it down to this particular strip because it wasn't so heavy with foot traffic from a tourism perspective, because we also needed to be there day in, day out and not interrupt, I guess, business in a huge way. And I think if it was if the street was the busiest one, like what a beautiful street here that's famous all around the world. People go to and we just didn't want to. That didn't seem right. We needed to have a white. It would meaningful relationships with the businesses, which meant we needed a bit of free time to actually engage with them. If they were constantly busy serving customers and we would, that would be difficult. So we knew we needed the street for economies of scale and then it came down to selecting a street that gave us balance with time and freedom to to implement projects that were very public facing that wouldn't distract detract from business and the productivity of the street. And so we selected Ocean Street. 

Katherine Whalen [00:19:27] Yeah, and you mentioned that you took like six different concepts. Could you elaborate on which these what these concepts were? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:19:36] Yeah, absolutely. So we took concepts from all different reports that we had read on the Circular economy from all over the world. So the six concepts that we looked at were resource efficiency, asset sharing, incentivize, return, reverse logistics and innovative technology. 

Katherine Whalen [00:19:57] Wow. So that's quite a quite a lot of different concepts, but they also they seem to go together quite well in terms of like how can we use technology to help with reverse logistics, etc., etc.. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:20:12] Yeah. And, you know, like I said, we took these out of reports that we had read that they're not, you know, the standard circular models or business models that we work with today. But they were very effective for giving us some scope and some parameter for what we were going to try to achieve in a straight and racial sufficiency. When you look at energy waterwise, the very tangible and practical things that most people interact with, with your business or you're just an individual. So that that was a really good one for us, for those logistics people. Like what what what are you talking about? Well, once you you explain the concept, it's not very hard to get. 

[00:20:51] And it's something like you just said, it's very complementary to the other initiatives as well as an incentivized return that that kind of guided our whole premise to say we wanted to incentivize people to come back to the state to invest, spend their money. But also in turn, get value and have an experience whilst they were there. And so that was really something that guided everything that we did. And we gave a lot of thought about not only the things that. Happens sort of the under the foot. This is an analogy I would typically give, you know, if you walk into a circular economy street or, you know, the projects that we work on today that are much larger scale, we're looking at a whole community. You know, if you walk in there, you don't just go, wow, this is circular. It typically is the things that happen, you know, inside the engine room. But we gave a lot of thought and something I think that's very important for any circular economy project is that you think about how to display and communicate, you know, why something is circular or what its value and contribution is to the street, because that helps build that experience. And the identity also helps people's understanding critically of what a circular economy mean. So, yeah, we gave a little float around that and the incentivized return concept really supported our facilitation of that of that approach. 

Katherine Whalen [00:22:16] I'm curious, Ashleigh, I know we got a little bit of a late later start because of the technical difficulties. Would you be able to go like maybe 10 or so minutes extra? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:22:26] Yes, sure I could-- Ten minutes will be fine. My husband is struggling in the background, but should be fine. I'm conscious that we had a tough start. So I will make sure this is worth your while. 

Katherine Whalen [00:22:35] Yeah. No, I apologize. I just want to make sure that your story can get shared, you know, as well, because it's so fascinating. But so the circular experiment was just one, that's how you kind of kickstarted what you're doing now. But now you're doing other things. And so I'm curious, what what are you doing? What has been your main focus now? And how has sort of the singular experiment shapes that kind of work? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:23:04] So I think from the second experiment out, we went from being, you know, two systems working on this one straight to being engaged by Australia's one of Australia's largest companies as a as a client. That was our first project. It's one of our largest projects today still in. And we're working on that at the moment and will for many years. And that project is with Lend Lease, a property developer. And we are developing Australia's first Circular economy masterplan community and that entry point from the experiment. What such an incredible opportunity to apply what we had to learn. But at scale and also to take the people with us on this journey because. We had done something through that experiment that was tangible and understandable, and that meant that we could communicate the value of a circular economy in a meaningful way in which people actually understood it and wanted to invest in it and wanted to take it to scale. In this particular community. So this experiment has been the backbone of everything that we've done and continue to do because it gives us the ability to communicate practical examples and the value of a circular economy. And now that project that this mentioned with Lend Lease, that that community that's ongoing. You know, the strategy that we developed looks at all aspects of this community from energy go to waste agriculture technology again. And we have like 80 different projects at Sydney that strategy that are all integrated, integrated and complementary to one another. But again, you can't do it all and you can't do it alone. 

[00:24:43] So we need to start somewhere. And we've identified as many materials as one of our major drives, this particular community. So we're looking at the construction. The director of the households and all the commercial properties, we're also looking at all of the curb side or residential materials that are generated from the household level. And we are bringing all those materials together inside the community to make sure that they stay in the productive economy through making sure they collected cleanly in clean streams. So just, you know, HDP plastic with a plastic glass, the glass, et cetera, and saying that the construction waste. And then we identify our offtake partners and we keep those materials circulating. And at the same time, we make sure the business case and models stack up. Now, that's just like one example of what we're doing as a as a company. 

[00:25:35] And that's a project that we'll be working on for several years. But we also find ourselves working in such a diversity of, you know, organizations and also addressing different opportunities and also challenges that businesses face and governments a lot. So we don't have a mandate to work in just the built environment or just the resources sector. Circular economy, because it is systemic, means that you can absolutely work and create value across any aspect of a supply chain. And typically that diversity can give you such power to generate increased value. Because what I have found through that, through my experiences in working on such a great array of projects, is that there are incredible opportunities to take a lesson or an advancement or a problem even from one sector and find a solution and another and introduce those two parties together. And, you know, we've we developed the Circular economy lab that just did just that. We bought 26 different organizations together to ideating create circular economy outcomes that were commercialized. And it just goes to show that collaboration isn't easy, but it is essential. If you're going to achieve a circular economy as an organization, we very much practice what we preach and we know that it's all about action. Demonstration in collaboration and being very authentic and driving. A values driven agenda forward. 

Katherine Whalen [00:27:06] Yeah, and what you said about the cross sectoral collaboration. I find that very important and also sort of an empowering and the way that a lot of times if you try to get companies within the same sector, there might be some some competition. But if you're able to sort of go across sectors and look outside, you can create partnerships and and collaborations that you might not be able to achieve if you're trying to just work within within a specific sector, because often there you have a lot of maybe inherent competition between different companies. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:27:49] Yeah, I think the days of competition aren't going anywhere. But I know what we encouraged back, you know, back doing the sector experiment was to say the businesses can people you need to compete, you know, compete on your salad and your steak, but don't compete on your napkins and your delivery trucks and and your waste and your energy. That doesn't make any sense. Look at bulk buys of renewable energy. Look at peer to peer trading. Look at, you know, making your Western input for another business. Look at, you know, one delivery truck in which you all buy the same napkins. Reverse logistics of all your certain types of plastic packaging. And they can't. They got that concept in the end. But it took a while for them to understand that it's not smart to compete on everything, compete as whole businesses. It's smart to collaborate and then can pick where you need to because I think competition is healthy. 

Katherine Whalen [00:28:45] Yeah, that's that's a fascinating way to look at it as well. I mean, also you probably become more efficient and maybe even be able to reduce costs if you're all getting your same napkins from this one place rather than all sort of trying to source them separately and having different trucks come at different times. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:29:03] Absolutely. And that point is so critical. Yes, you can reduce costs and you have a better relationship with your direct businesses. But like starting to think about systems led approach, it's that particular street was a one way street that we worked on like 200 meters in length. It had over 50 delivery trucks a day. And that that delivery truck, those delivery trucks all popped in one in front of one of the cafes. Of course, that cafe and their customers were getting very irritated, was taking away their customers because it was like the trucking exhaust and everything else. But above and beyond that, from an economic perspective and circular economy is about improving the economic outcomes of business whilst doing good for the environment and society. You know, that was costing 50 dollars each time for each delivery truck. And I was like, why? Why you will pay fifty dollars for a truck. That's also really annoying when your neighboring businesses depleting the amenity of the street, which is affecting people even coming down here to spend money in your business. They start to really understand those interconnectivity in the system and then can start to reconfigure it and find, you know, economically viable ways to address it whilst doing good, the environment, et cetera. You know, it's a no brainer. It's logical. It makes sense. And to be honest, that's why we had such a successful experiment, because when you break it down and you make it very clear for people, they are always going to choose a circular approach. I have no doubt about it. 

Katherine Whalen [00:30:30] So our listeners are mainly working professionals, and a lot of them are, you know, listening to the podcast, trying to get inspired and really thinking about trying to implement circular change in their own or in their own organizations or companies. So if there's one piece of advice that you would give them for people who are just getting started or trying to really apply this to their own situation. One key piece of advice would you give? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:31:02] Be brave and just put one foot in front of the other. And that bravery doesn't mean you need to work on a streets or, you know, start a big project or start your own company. It may just be reaching out to a CEO of an organization or someone you really admire. But ultimately, I think being brave in this transition and identifying your role within it is the most critical thing you can do. 

Katherine Whalen [00:31:30] It seems I mean, I don't know the full story for four years or fully experiment and things like that, but it seems like you were quite brave in reaching out to people, finding advise, finding advisors to help you sort of direct you into this. This idea of like looking at a specific system and the different key concepts that you needed to look at. I'm sure you probably also were talking to a lot of government officials and so many different people like the customers in the street and things like that. So it seems like you've really taken this this be brave approach and implemented it yourself. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:32:07] Yeah, we have. And, you know, it was terrifying walking up to businesses and, you know, cold calling. And, you know, I had never, ever been in a meeting with government representatives before in my life. And we wrote a letter. Well, Environment Minister, at the time of the state of Queensland. And he wrote back and he organized a meeting with government directors. My sister I've baked cookies to take maybe. And that's so funny now when we laugh about it. But it just just always be yourself and be brave. And, you know, I believe that's where successful really comes from. You've got to buck yourselves. And bravery is a beautiful attribute of quality to have. And we need it in a circular economy because it's not easy. That's definitely the truth about circular economy or so-called transition. It's not going to be easy. So people that are willing to be brave are so essential and we need them all over the world. That's yeah, that's my key piece of advice.

Katherine Whalen [00:33:06] Yeah. I like what you said about being genuine as well, because I think you're your personality shines through just from the minute that you go to your website. For example, I love like you have like the little inner circle and you can tell, you know, just from just from like walking onto your website, just about like who you are, who you are and to who you are, who your company is. So I'll, of course, link to that in the show notes on the Getting in the Loop Podcast website. 

[00:33:35] But I'm sure we could be here. We could be here all day, Ashleigh. But we have the time difference and you need to kind of get back to what you were doing before this and I'm going to start my day as well. But I wanted to ask you the question that I ask all guests before we go, which is if you could create an event for the In the Loop game, what would it address? And for those who haven't played In the Loop game and it's about a game where you're collecting different materials to make a product and there's different events that happen. Sometimes they help you get these materials and sometimes they hinder you in getting these materials. But sort of above all else, the game kind of tries to make you think about the interconnectedness between different systems and the globe today. So, Ashleigh, if you could have an in the loop event that you would create, what kind of focus would you have it have it be? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:34:37] I would have, because we work with a lot of companies in the resources sector, the big, big players like BHP and Rio Tinto and we  look at the connections to the renewable energy sector and the climate agenda, I would create an event around people or kind of event around the critical metals and minerals that are required for our transition to a low carbon economy and how closely interlinked renewables are with our extractive sector resources sector. 

Katherine Whalen [00:35:12] Fascinating. Yeah. That's a that's quite a good one. I don't think there is a complete event that does that would come with linking the two. Yeah. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:35:25] Yeah, it would be fun. 

Katherine Whalen [00:35:26] Yeah, definitely. So, well, this has been such a pleasure to chat with you and to hear more about the amazing practical work that you are doing. I am sure that the listeners. I mean, I got so much out of this and feel super inspired, so I'm sure that the listeners also-- Well, maybe some of them will even contact you because  you're so inspiring and want to learn from you. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:35:56] Thanks. 

[00:36:04] Yeah. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:36:04] So if you do want to reach out, please don't hesitate. Very friendly, approachable. 

Katherine Whalen [00:36:10] Yeah, we're having Internet connections right now. But, okay. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and before before you go, where can listeners go online to learn more about you and the topics that we discussed? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:36:30] Our website, which I think today you said you're going to link earlier, but also LinkedIn, our team in particular myself and my co-founder is my sister, Jenny, we we share project updates every week because we really, again, believe in getting as much demonstration out there. And we also want critical feedback so we can do better and grow better and help support the global transition of  circular economy. So check us out on LinkedIn and have a look at our website. 

Katherine Whalen [00:36:58] Excellent. And is this your personal LinkedIn or is this your company's LinkedIn? 

Ashleigh Morris [00:37:04] Sorry, personal. 

Katherine Whalen [00:37:04] Personal. 

Ashleigh Morris [00:37:04] So Ashley Morris and also Jenny Morris. 

Katherine Whalen [00:37:07] Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. For show notes and links, go to our website at GettingInTheLoopPodcast.com, and while you're there, subscribe to our mailing list to have new episodes delivered to your inbox every Monday. See you next week.