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Transcript: Open Source Circularity and Creativity with Lars Zimmermann

Transcript: Open Source Circularity and Creativity with Lars Zimmermann

SEE THE SHOW NOTES AND LISTEN AT: Open Source Circularity and Creativity with Lars Zimmermann

Katie Whalen [00:00:05] Hi, I'm Katie Whalen and join me each week as I talk with experts around the globe about Circular economy. You'll find out what's being done to make it a reality and if it can really solve the problems it promises. It's time for Getting in the Loop. 

[00:00:27] Hi, it's Katie. And welcome back to the Getting in the Loop Podcast. Today, we're getting in the loop with Lars Zimmermann, who is a self-described artist, designer and activist. Lars is co-founder of Open Source Circular economy Days, a global event that started in 2015 to promote open source as the key driver to a circular economy. Based out of Berlin, Germany, he is founder of MI Factory, a design and environmental activism studio. In this episode, you'll learn about open source circular economy days and the workshops that Lars runs to engage people in Circular economy concepts, including that of previews, which you'll hear him explain more in detail in this episode. Last but not least in this episode, Lars also shares some exciting news about work he is doing regarding Circular economy education. Show notes and links mentioned in today's episode can be found at our website gettinginthelooppodcast.com. 

[00:01:28] Before we get started with today's episode, I wanted to tell you about something awesome. If you're giving presentations related to Circular economy or if you just want to learn a little bit more about Circular economy basics, head over to slidedeck.gettinginthelooppodcast.com to grab a free presentation that I've created based off of presentations that I've given over the course of the last couple of years. And what it is is you can use it as a starting point for your own presentation. So it's PowerPoint presentation. You can add or adapt your own slides into it, or you can just go through the presentation and learn a little bit more about the basics behind Circular economy. So it's 20 slides. It starts off with why we need a circular economy. What is the concept and how can we implement this in practice? And then at the end it finishes with some links to different reports and other resources so you can learn a little bit more on your own. Okay. So now onto today's podcast. 

[00:02:25] Well, it is a pleasure to have you on the Getting in the Loop Podcast today. And I'm really happy we were able to follow up from the plate conference where we met in September and now get to chat. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:02:40] Hello and thank you for having me. 

Katie Whalen [00:02:41] Yeah. Excellent. Okay. So I'm really curious and we never got a chance to talk about this when we were in Berlin. But you're doing a lot regarding Circular economy. So how did you first hear about Circular economy and how did your interest begin? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:02:57] I'm an artist interested in economy. And around 2009, I created a project that involved Circular economy. It wasn't called Circular economy back then, but I was super inspired by the cradle to cradle design approach. That project never really worked, but I continued on this path for circularity with other projects. And yet this interest stuck with me. 

Katie Whalen [00:03:22] Great. Yeah, it definitely has. And we're gonna get into that, you know, as we continue discussing. And because one of the things that you have been advocating is this idea of open source circular economy. So maybe some of the listeners are familiar with the term open source circular economy, but for those who aren't. Could you just give a brief introduction to this idea? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:03:46] Yeah, I try to make it as brief and simple as possible. Open source means basically you publish how something is made. So the design files of the building plan in a way that allows others to study, modify, use, distribute and also make and sell the design. So you enable others to do more than just consume your products. Maybe they build them, maybe they build new versions of it and they can bring this to the market. And this is super successful in the world of software. We all use open source software on a daily basis if we know about it or not. It is the case and there are also people trying to do this for hardware stuff. And why is it important for the circular economy? Because one of the things we try out for circularity is to make things really long lasting. And now in vision, you have something that really lasts for 30 or maybe even 40 years. Another part of the circular economy is that we want to have things that are repairable, reusable and in the end, recyclable. And now think about something you bought here today and then in 30 years. At the other side of the globe, it breaks down. So the people there have been to take care of the repairing, reusing or recycling. So first of all, they need to have the information to know how it's properly repaired or reused and recycled. And if this information is not available, it's not very likely that they will do this. And second, not just the information needs to be available. They also need to have the right to do this. So patents are in the way of people that want to repair or recycle sometimes. So really, openness helps to enable circularity in a big distributed economy. I would say and this is what I try to figure out and advocate for. 

Katie Whalen [00:05:38] Yeah, so it seems like- yeah. So in terms of an open source circular economy, it's kind of the opposite of a closed one where you have a couple firms or companies that have the centralized knowledge and they control the patents and the rights and they are responsible for extending the lifetimes of products, whereas the open source one is something more like along the I would say that I fix it kind of vision. Maybe you agree with me in terms of, you know, the right to repair and the right to have access to, you know, how your phone is made so that you can get in and change the battery. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:06:18] Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. 

Katie Whalen [00:06:20] Okay. And because of your interest in open source Circular economy, you are the co-founder. Or maybe, maybe it's maybe I have a wrong cause and effect. But you are a co-founder of the Open Source Circular economy Days. And I think some of my listeners have seen this on the Web because it's been going now. I'm going to shoot myself in the foot, maybe, but I think it's been going on for at least for four years. Am I right? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:06:46] Yeah, yeah. 

Katie Whalen [00:06:46] Yeah? Okay, so four years and could you tell us more about open source circular economy days? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:06:53] Yeah. In 2014, I said together was a bunch of people and we said that this question of open source as a key driver for us real circular economy circular design is such a great question idea, but it's nowhere asked. The only page where you can find could find something on the web back then was one of the pages I ran for a couple of years that never really got any visitors. So at that time, also global events were something relatively new and super interesting and we thought, come on, let's use a global event to push this question and make it really something that is discussed across the globe. So we set up this event called Open Source Circular economy days, and we got a couple of people that signed up and said that they would create local events in the first year was, I think around 30 cities or people and 30 cities participating. And second year, we had already 70 people that said that they set up local events to discuss these questions with their local community. Yeah. And the idea this part of the project somehow has stopped a little bit. And I think one of the reasons for this is that we now all know that global events aren't that interesting and that they don't deliver that much value as we hoped for when we started with these things. 

Katie Whalen [00:08:22] Interesting. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:08:24] But there is still this platform and still people pushing this. And we're trying to figure out a new way to bring this question to the agenda and make progress. 

Katie Whalen [00:08:34] Okay. So that's pretty impressive that you had to grow that much in just the span of one year. But you now say that global events are maybe not so interesting. Could you expand on that? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:08:51] Yeah, I mean, what makes events interesting that you can really talk to people and connect to people. And someone took the time to come to the same place as you did. 

[00:09:02] And then we start, hey, come on, let's use things like Google Hangouts or Skype and use them as a window to the other side of the globe. But in the end, you don't go to a conference to sit in front of a shitty streaming of someone giving maybe a lame presentation in front of a computer screen. You know, you just don't do this sitting in front of a computer screen. And it's not interesting to watch these talks. Most of the time, because it's now relatively cheap to produce high quality media. And there are so many good resources out there. For example, great podcasts, probably like yours, good videos, well-made Web sites and text. So why go for these talks that were streamed via Google Hangouts, you know? So this is one of the one of the problems to quality of the media. And then. Yeah. That you don't really need the people. 

Katie Whalen [00:09:58] Yeah. So it's more beneficial to have something locally where you can get together and work on something tangible, maybe then have this wealth of knowledge, although that of course is still important. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:10:12] Yeah. 

Katie Whalen [00:10:13] Yeah. And could you just give some examples of maybe some past open source or open source circular economy days talks or projects that I'll link to the website in the show, notes on on the Getting in the Loop Podcast show note page so then listeners can go and look at them. But maybe you could just give the listeners a taste of kind of what what kinds of events you had or what sort of talks. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:10:41] Okay. The events weren't really so much about talks, I would say we had some some talks. And you can find recordings of them, of course, on the website. We had a beautiful video shot by Kyle Wiens or we had David Lee, who is a very well known person in China, especially in the maker scene. So he gave us some hints how to look at Circular economy from a Chinese manufacturers point of view, which was really interesting and I definitely recommend this talk. But he even wasn't so much about these talks. It was more about that you had local events and invite people to actually hack on things. So to build something and then to document what you invented at this conference. So, for example, in Berlin, we had people that really build at one of the events a precious plastic machine, really. There was nothing when the event started. And in the end, they had a machine you could use to recycle plastic yourself. And some of these DIY projects or these design projects are documented on our forum. So you can visit the website, click on the community forum and then browse a bit for solutions and you will find things on modular design, on recycling plastic yourself, on making bio plastics and add some more of these things. For example, one that is really beautiful by my friend sacral and a long tutorial on how to make a circular wedding. 

Katie Whalen [00:12:20] Wow. Really cool. I actually I saw that that Article by Sago. Yeah. Oh, that's that's so cool. I'm definitely, definitely going to check out a lot of these forums because I've seen some of them and I have. But I haven't I have to admit, I haven't had the time to go in depth for all of them. But yet the precious plastics that most like you just showed show up one day and don't have a machine. And then the next, the next day or by the end of the week, you have a machine. That's crazy. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:12:52] Yeah. And that's because this project is so well documented and open source. It really enables people across the globe to build these machines. And it works, as you can see on their website. 

Katie Whalen [00:13:02] Yeah. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna have to check that out. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:13:06] Oh, you never- Sorry to interrupt you, but you never really took a look at the first plastic project?

Katie Whalen [00:13:12] Well, it's the guys from Delft, right? Or not? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:13:17] Not sure if it's Delft- 

Katie Whalen [00:13:18] Rotterdam, the Netherlands. Right? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:13:20] It's definitely in the Netherlands. Yeah. So. So he just advertise this project a little bit because it's so fantastic here. I created four machines you can use to recycle plastic locally yourself because you can go to every hardware store and buy machines to work with wood or metal. But nothing too broken is plastic. And he changed that. And then you document documented these machines. Very, very good. And then people across the globe started to build these machines, set up little local businesses with recycled plastic and so on. 

[00:13:52] And ever since this project grew, they have now 50 people working in a factory. They have new versions of these machines. Many, many businesses across the globe that sell recycled plastic through their online bazaar. Yes, it's really well-made. And maybe you want one anecdote. I met him when we were invited to Kazakhstan because the World Expo was there in 2017 and there were a lot of European activists and none. No one of us had any friends or connections except of Dave, because even in Kazakhstan, people had built his machines. So this project really made through open source a big difference when it comes to thinking about recycling plastic. 

Katie Whalen [00:14:36] Yeah. Okay. That's a great suggestion. So now that we've kind of talked about perpetual and precious and dear in plastic, so peace, peace, peace, I want to talk to you about what we talked about a couple weeks ago at the plate conference where we talked about pre-use because you led a workshop about pre-use. 

[00:14:56] And I- Yeah, as a side note, I'll link to some of the graphics that you used in the workshop, if that's okay with you, because I think that will help explain this and also, I really liked, I really liked them. But could you just explain to the- yeah, explain what your idea of pre-use is? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:15:17] Yeah, it's actually not my idea. I learned the term from someone else from Young Curvis. But when you said pre-use, it made immediately click in my head because that was something that I needed. Because when we talk about circular economy, there is this sometimes the 5 degree or the four big, we like repair, reuse, refurbish, recycle and so on. And they use this preview, reuse or turn it into pre use and what they what they mean by this. It's a it's a practice of design. So when day for example, or. Let me give you an. A definition so previously means that you use something like an object for something else than it was initially intended, but you leave it completely intact so you don't cut it or destroy it so that it, even after it was used for something else, still can fulfill initially intended use afterwards. Sounds complicated. I give you an example. So can or the architecture project in Michigan, for example, when they have to setup an infrastructure for an event, sometimes they borrow the building material like wooden blocks and so on. Or wooden sticks. And then they use these sticks to build an infrastructure so they can't cut them. They can't drill them. They can paint them. They have to leave them as they were. And then when the event is over, they disassemble everything and then they can can give these wooden sticks back to the supermarket. So so previews you use it for something else before this sticks then are going to use where they maybe are coated, glued and so on. And there are so many examples in the world. For example, in Germany, it's really famous, probably in other countries, too, that you use a regular flower, put pot as an ashtray that protects the cigarets from wind. So you just put an upside down and then you can through the little hole, put the cigaret. But when the wind comes. A cigarette is protected. But you can still use this pot afterwards as a flower pot. And there are so many interesting examples. And I collect them on my website whenever I find something like this and share them. For example, there's an image of a chessboard board made out of nuts and bolts. So of course, these are now chess figures, but you can still turn them back into nuts and bolts and use them as nuts. And bolts are used for many, many different things. Autodesk, for example, a curtain holder that is connected to the wall with a pipe holder that you usually use in your bathroom. But it also works as a curtain holder. Yeah, and there are interesting buildings made out of chairs and so on. And why I find this so interesting is because it's a show, so many things that are interesting for. For circular design. First of all, it points to existing examples of modular design. So you don't have to invent a new modular design. You can just look around you and see, ah, I can use this as trade, as a flower pot, for example. No. If you learn to view the world like this, then you can spot a lot of interesting examples for already existing circular modular things. Then I really like the idea. It's theoretically but that you can have less factories because now maybe you have a factory for the flower pots and then you have a factory for ash trades. But no, you don't need a factory for asteroids anymore because you can use the flower pot. You know, maybe it helps us to reduce the factories and to reduce the need of materials. Then what I absolutely love about this idea of DIY circularity. Many of us, I think amongst your listeners, we are really excited about circular economy and secular design and then we go to the supermarket. But there are no examples on the shelves. We so desperately would love to buy because we want to have them in our home. And then with this you can just use existing things in a circular way. So it's basically invites the hardcore spirit and all of us to turn the world. You live in your flat into a more simpler, more modular place. Yeah. As I already said, it's a great inspiration for design because sometimes maybe there just is a mind or shift needed. 

[00:19:46] In this example I gave about a pipe holder. It doesn't look so good in your living room window towards the curtains on your wall, but maybe you can make a little adjustment to the design. And then still it works in the bathroom and still it looks nice and works in your living room. 

[00:20:03] So maybe that's a good starting point for four designers. And the last thing I really like about this is that it's just such a great explanation about what circular economy or circular design is. It's to me that you don't start using something before you have at least three different ideas in your head. What happens next to this? You know, and none of these ideas, it goes to the garbage and then I will never see it again.  

[00:20:30] No, when you do something, you plan for the next stage. That happens when you will maybe have left the room or the country or whatever. So this is some so beautifully crafted when you use this word pre used. You know? Yeah. And that's the reason I'm so excited about this term. And I want to push this concept to designers and even companies. That's the reason I grow this online collection. And of course, maybe last remark on this. This practice to take things and use them differently as they are usually intended for is nothing new. It's nothing that the circular design community has invented. But it's something that we can, in this discourse learn so much about, you know, and that maybe the new thing was produce is really that you don't just use something differently than it was intended, but you do this and leave it intact for the initial use. That's maybe the new spin that comes with this great term produce. I like to push through your audience. 

Katie Whalen [00:21:34] Yeah, yeah. I think when during the workshop two things struck me, which was one, I think this kind of idea behind previews in terms of thinking about how things can have multiple life times like I think and different potential uses. 

[00:21:53] I think that can be something that even designers who are designing new products can try to think about when they are designing these products and think about how could these things be used in different ways. And then second, I also thought that it was quite interesting because it gives a lot of different opportunities for after products have already been made as well. And one of the things that we had talked about in the workshop, at least sort of at the end, we had been there was a lot of designers there. And we were thinking about how a lot of times when you're starting a design brief, you start thinking about the form, sorry, the function, sorry, and I'm going to mess this up. 

[00:22:38] But we talked about how that the form of the product follows usually the function. But I think what you sort of do and what pre-use can do is flip it. So instead, like the function follows the form. No, I'm completely messing this up. If not the norm. Yeah. Form follows function, but actually now its function follows form, yes. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:23:05] Yeah. That's beautiful that you said. So this is a good explanation. Yeah. Sometimes designers look at our work and say, hey, you are so, so radical in your sustainability and circular approach. Yes. Because that's where we start. And then we have these techniques and we have two things that our designs are should be able to do. And then we come up with the designs, you know, and then we use these techniques to solve questions. 

Katie Whalen [00:23:30] Yeah. So what has been the response like to when you when you go to designers and host these workshops or try to work with companies and get them to think about this? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:23:42] I didn't actually try to work with companies. So just concept and the response like in the workshop. We met in amongst designers, usually in the beginning. They are usually skeptical. But then when they played was this and it's one of the beautiful things about produce it. It's really easy to understand. You know, it just takes you 10 minutes till you get a window opens where you can see opportunities. You are probably really interested in. So it takes some minutes. But usually designers then start to gain an interest in this concept. 

Katie Whalen [00:24:20] Yeah. I think it's also it's just it's a it's a good sort of eye opening for us to just think about, okay, how can we make make do with the existing things that we already have? Which is yeah. As opposed to go out and running by something something new. Or create something completely new that's going to utilize new materials and things like that. So, yeah. At the end of the workshop, you also mentioned that you've been doing some work in terms of circular education. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you're doing in this area. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:25:01] Oh, yeah. Thanks for asking about this. We sometimes do education with kids. And if you are in this view of you, you see horrible, horrible things happen all the time because, um, when people in an art school or in India and into art lessons learn how to be creative persons, they maybe go to a shopping mall, then they buy colorful papers and glues incisions. And then they have a big party where they cut everything in small pieces and glued together and then they have a resolve they might enjoy for one hour. But what is the most impressive thing is that the garbage bin in the room is full of stuff, you know. And this if you really think about that, this generation needs to design a circular, sustainable world of the future. And when they learn designing and making things is connected to buying new stuff and cut it into small pieces, we don't really have an interest in, you know, and that can be turned to something else. How should this generation really become this designer? We so desperately need. So we had this project called a Palace of Projects where we had the chance to create 17 different workshops within one school. And each workshop has a different subject, but all of them are a circular design. So I think we didn't use glue in one of them. And we made things like. Let me give you some examples. For example, the most impressive one is that we build a one room uniform farm in the school and then groom meal worms and then eat them and cook them and eat them into school and all because the eating insects are a sustainable form of nutrition or or we wish to fund a little. We went through the streets from Berlin and cut it old posters from the walls and turned them into bio plastics and used this bio plastic to create lamps, for example. 

[00:26:53] Or we had another workshop where we collected all- Wait. Or we had another workshop where we collected old the plastic parts- Wait. Or we had another workshop where we collected all plastic pots and then drew a unified grid into these plastic parts. And by this turned them into a modular construction parts for toys. So kids made their own legal like toys, you know, toys that they don't throw away when they are not interested in them anymore, but they can disassemble and build new toys out of them. Yeah. And then one rock, for example, we had a repair shop in school. And then the last day we created a advertisement, posters for repairing things. And then we went through the street and put these posters in front of posters that hang there and advertised for buying new stuff. Then maybe one one last example. When we went, why we are into activism. We created activist Greenpeace like interventions for the car free city with our twelve year old kids. They came up with their own interventions and then we made those in the streets, you know. And what what about this project is that all of these workshops are documented in how to style. So we really put out these open educational resources to enable more art and science teachers to to work with actually sustainable concepts, because you find this unsustainable design and tinkering techniques even in education about sustainability. So really, it's a nightmare. So we need to raise awareness there and give maybe to people a few ideas how to start with modularity and circularity in their creative educations. 

Katie Whalen [00:28:48] Wow. Very cool. And this the teachers are open and excited about this as much as the students, I imagine. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:28:57] Yeah. They love this one because I just had this discussion a couple of hours ago. Sometimes you have people that run rocks off with kids and they tell me. Yeah. Good people. Did you two kids want to take something away at the end of the workshop? And if you think about like that, then, of course, there will be so much garbage and so much resources consumed. But, you know, let's say you do boot something out of electronics in your workshop and then you have 20 kids. Sure. Two of them. Maybe we'll take the thing at home, disassemble it, and tinker a little bit further. But the other 18 will do nothing. And if you explain kids that you work here with modularity, that we use parts that can be disassembled in the end and put back to the shelf for the next kids. And this is for sustainability. They love this idea. I have never a kid that were disappointed that it could take hold. Couldn't take home what they had made when they understood it's for the future. It's for sustainability. They love it and they followed through with it. So there's really a lot of open minds. When you when you approach them with these ideas. 

Katie Whalen [00:30:02] Yeah. And also, it's it's a good collaborative message as well, because it's not about you being individualistic and taking home your own thing, but it's about you got to use something and then the next people also get to you something and have the same amount of fun that you had. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:30:17] Yeah, exactly. 

Katie Whalen [00:30:18] Yeah, yeah. Really cool. Really cool. What's your plan now for that? Are you going to add some extra thing or is it you keep it would like the workshops that you have online. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:30:30] Yeah. We learned something really interesting because now at our website there are 17 tutorials for these workshops, but no one ever really looks at this. So we came up with a new plan. And this is actually a really interesting one. I partnered up with a fantastic organization that's called Circular Berlin. And we were invent now a certification process for schools. So basically, kids will have this little art and science projects. And looking at resource streams that go through their school in creative projects and then they will first analyze them and then come up with a plan how to turn this into a circular resource stream. And then they will take action to make this happen in India in the art lessons, for example. And we will document these workshops as well and put this how tos on a Web site in every school that follows these, how TOS will then be certified as circular school. So maybe this is an incentive for schools actually to take these to these how tos and use them because they can call themselves a circular school after worlds. This is all a little incentive heck that we plan for next year and we are happy if you follow that and help us with creating this certification process. 

Katie Whalen [00:31:45] And that's that's awesome, actually. Maybe that even fits with the final question that I ask all of the interview guests because I don't know how much we had to. I don't know exactly if we were able to talk so much about this when I was there, you know, face to face with you in Berlin. But as you might have seen by now, I have a game that I created a couple of years ago about materials and circular economy. And right now, I have it very much the old fashioned way of distributing. So people can get the game and sense of the game online. And I don't have, you know, the the rules and things like that or how to play very open anywhere. But I've been toying with this idea of being able to make it available to anyone and everyone through open source. So maybe that looks like a print in play, you know, downloadable thing, or maybe it's something that could even go on this resources for free for schoolchildren that you're talking about. But yeah, we can have that discussion, maybe a separate, separate time to it. 

[00:32:53] But I guess the question that I always ask the interview guests is if they could create an event for the game, what would it be? And basically in the game, your credit, your manufacturing products and your casting resources for your products. And then as time goes on, you realize that maybe it doesn't make sense to be collecting more resources, but to actually be making smarter use of the resources that we have. Like do repair of our products or re manufacture our products and the events in the game. They're something that they happen every so often they change sort of the market conditions so they can export. 

[00:33:34] They can disrupt the number of materials available or they can, you know, be an incentive from the government to pursue a more circular strategy. So now I've talked a little bit, maybe too much, Lars, but if you could create an event for the game, what kind of event do you think you would focus on? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:33:52] But as in, I think I came up with something interesting. It's, um, it's an idea that is brought forward by many, many organizations, for example, the Free Software Foundation. But so many others. And it's basically that when you manufacture a product and then you stop to support the product, then you should be forced by law to open source all the parts so that then other companies can maybe produce are parts or due to security updates when we talk about software. But basically, if you don't offer repair for your product, then you will have to enable others to do this for you through open source. And now we imagine in the game that the European Union makes this a law. And this is. Yes. 

[00:34:39] And this is actually is super interesting because right now this is fantastic project that started in Germany where there will be a decent norm, which is a very high level standard or norm for how to make open source hardware. When this norm or the standard is out, then it's possible to have let's, for example, say in Horizon 2020, call put in them. Whatever results you produce, you need to make the hardware open source according to this public standard. So we are getting closer to that. This one day might happen. 

Katie Whalen [00:35:15] I think that's brilliant because also one of the- yeah, the difficulty I was talking to Michel Bauwens of the Peer to Peer Foundation and we were talking about open source and I was actually asking him like, so do you have ideas for how I could, you know, open source my game and things like that? And oh, and he was just like you had super difficult for more like hardware kinds of thing, but it's easier for software and stuff like that. So I think it's nice to see that there is a movement in that direction. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:35:46] Yeah. 

Katie Whalen [00:35:47] Yeah. Especially for actual products like physical products and manufactured products and products from companies. 

Lars Zimmermann [00:35:54] Yeah. Yeah. This the standard will we be fit to make a difference. 

Katie Whalen [00:35:59] Yeah. Okay. Well it's been such a pleasure talking with you, Lars. Before we go, can you tell where listeners can learn more about you and the topics that we discussed? 

Lars Zimmermann [00:36:09] Yeah. We didn't tackle half of what I do in this field of open circularity. So I really invite you to visit my website. I have a couple of them. One is called OpenCircularity.info and there you can find mostly the talks I give at conferences or last semester I worked as a guest professor in design at a German university and my whole course and all the inputs on how to open source hardware, how to license open source hardware designs, and how to design for circularity. They are all there available for you to use, share, remix and so on. If you are more interested in the hardware projects and design projects we develop into educational projects, then please visit the web site mifactori.de and you can also sign up for our newsletter at opencircularity.info. We have really a full list of interesting projects that will go online in the next 13 months. Many about interesting new ideas about how open design can help us with circular design. And I think many of these things have never been really discussed. And I'm so excited and I hope to find a time to push them out as soon as I can. And I'm, of course, on all these social media websites, like there's a Mifactori account and Instagram and I'm on Facebook and on Twitter and, yeah. Starting boot from that website, you will find all of this. Please follow, click and share. 

[00:37:39] Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode for show notes and links. Go to our website at gettinginthelooppodcast.com. And while you're there, subscribe to our mailing list to have new episodes delivered to your inbox every Monday. See you next week.

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About the Show

Getting In the Loop is a weekly podcast dedicated to exploring how to transform to a more circular society. Join host Katie Whalen as she examines the challenges facing our current resource use and discovers alternatives to the ‘take, make, dispose’ way of doing things. Each week she interviews circular economy experts about what they’re doing and learning. Together we'll uncover what circular economy means in practice and find out what's being done to keep our resources in a loop rather than sent to waste.

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